Myths of Hardcore Nintendo Fans

Written by Daniel Sims

Editor's note: I haven't been a Nintendo fanboy since circa 1991, so it's interesting to read this insight by Daniel, who describes the current situation of hardcore Nintendo fans as they fight for more quality third-party Wii releases. -Fitch

One of the biggest factors affecting the Nintendo Wii’s library is the longstanding assumption among publishers that Nintendo fans don’t buy third-party games. And it's an assumption I've fought against for years. In my opinion, the limits of what core Nintendo fans will buy has never been definitively charted, and it’s still an issue to this day.

Most of us probably consider this an issue already resolved -- or at least left behind -- because it’s been the status quo for so many years. Oftentimes, it looks like the Wii owners who want “core” games have moved on upon realization of Nintendo’s new focus, but I’ve seen and heard enough outcry to believe otherwise.

I was a Nintendo-exclusive gamer up until 2005, so I spent most of my formative Internet years among hardline Nintendo fans at places like the old Official Nintendo Forums and all the old Zelda fan sites looking at the outside from within. My time among the world of Nintendo fanboys has taught me a lot about that market and what it wants.

I'll tell you this much: Core Nintendo fans are not resigned to the fate of forever only buying the next Mario, Zelda, Star Fox, and Super Smash Bros. games. They just feel economically chained to the machines that run those games.

Let's take franchises like Resident Evil and Soul Calibur. Wii-only gamers still want new, full games like that but either aren’t willing to buy -- or can’t afford -- the machines that run them. The assumption that Nintendo fans don’t buy third-party is, in a way, part of a self-fulfilling prophecy that’s clouded Nintendo game libraries for more than a decade. I’m not sure where it started, but it’s turned into a vicious cycle.

The reason Nintnedo fans generally don’t buy third-party is because there really haven’t been very many great third-party games on Nintendo hardware since the Super NES. Or...have there not been very many great third party games on Nintendo hardware because Nintnedo fans don’t buy third-party? It’s a chicken-and-egg dilemma.

To exemplify this problem in the fighter genre, Namco could hide behind the “we can’t run it on Wii” excuse with Soul Calibur before -- but not anymore, since they seem to have done an excellent job of porting Soul Calibur 4 to the PSP in Soul Calibur: Broken Destiny. So the likely reason why Namco hasn’t attempted a Wii version is because there hasn’t been a proven market for fighting games on the Wii.

Now, I’m not talking about figuring out how to apply motion controls to fighting games or any of that -- I’m just talking about releasing versions of these games that will run on the Wii itself. Will they sell to the “core” Wii audience or core Nintendo fans? This is just one part of the bigger question about Nintendo fans that has never been definitively answered.

You can probably count less than 10 substantial fighting games in the combined libraries of the N64, Gamecube, and Wii. I remember reading a magazine ad for the Gamecube version of Capcom vs SNK 2 (which I bought and still own) and laughing at what it read: “Finally! Arcade fighters return to Nintendo consoles!”

You see, Capcom vs SNK 2 EO was the first 2D fighter released on a Nintendo console in six years -- the last being the Super NES version of Street Fighter Alpha 2. Since then, other than Super Smash Bros. games, Nintendo consoles have only received games like Guilty Gear XX, some Mortal Kombat ports, and the terrible Castlevania: Judgment.

I can only think of one example of a truly well-made third-party fighter released on a recent Nintendo console: Soul Calibur 2. And it was a very successful game. Yes, including Link as a guest character certainly baited Nintendo fans, but I can tell you right now that it created a real base for Soul Calibur among that audience.

All it took was a good game, some good advertising, and good PR through trusted outlets. Instead of seeing the publishers treat the Nintendo console fanbase like some walled-off world, I saw two sides that understood one another. Namco knew how to market the game, and outlets like Nintendo Power understood what the game was all about.

Because of all that, even today, Nintendo console owners are still pissed about Soul Calibur 3 being PS2-exclusive after its predecessor built a multi-console fan base, and they're still pissed that all they’ve gotten from Namco Bandai since then has been the horrible Soul Calibur Legends. The question of “Will Nintnedo console owners buy fighting games?” has yet to be answered.

This one franchise within one genre is really just a small, currently occurring part of the issue at large: that longtime Nintendo console owners are an ignored -- and, more importantly -- untested population.

The majority of multiplatform games of the previous generation where shoddily ported to the Gamecube (the worst case being the Tom Clancy games). Bu this generation, third-party developers aren’t even trying. If the numbers for Call of Duty 4: Reflex don’t turn up well, it won’t be because there Wii owners aren't into that kind of game -- it’ll be because it looked a couple steps removed from an N64 title.

The only definitive case you can really bring up for a truly good third-party Wii game that failed is Zack & Wiki. MadWorld proved to be a divisive game over time, and Okami failed to sell anywhere.

Resident Evil is the best example of a third-party franchise that's proven successful on Nintendo hardware -- and it's because the publisher trusted in the audience. Trust, along with competent game development, has created a modest stable of third-party brands that Nintendo console owners trust. Soul Calibur and Resident Evil are among them.

Nintendo’s GameCube development deal with Capcom included Resident Evil 4 and the Resident Evil remake -- two games that respected the hardware and, in turn, became successful with the audience. That firmly established the franchise as a trusted brand that's now far exceeded Capcom’s sales expectations on the Wii.

Capcom's continuing this with Resident Evil: The Darkside Chronicles, as Umbrella Chronicles topped a million copies -- but Nintendo console owners still want more. Some want a version of Resident Evil 5 (which I don’t think is possible) or at least a full, original game on the Wii to give the series the benefit of Wii controls like the Resident Evil 4 port.

Another smaller example of a trusted third party brand among Nintendo gamers is the Tales series. Tales of Symphonia -- probably one of the best games in the series, was well-received and is still popular among Wii owners awaiting Tales of Graces -- an example of Namco Bandai falling back on an audience that knows and trusts them.

Suda51 also carved out his own niche on the GameCube with Killer 7, and that niche is paying off today with No More Heroes. To an extent, there’s also Sega – specifically Sonic Team -- whose various Sonic ports were also well-received by core Nintendo gamers.

But we still see publishers and others who believe that Nintendo owners are wholly devoted to Nintnedo’s games. I'm starting to see the climate improve this fall, though. Silent Hill: Shattered Memories is generating genuine interest among Wii owners, and word is that Vanillaware's Muramasa: The Demon Blade has out-done its PS2 predecessor Odin Sphere. Tatsunoko vs Capcom just has people excited in general.

Now, the games I mentioned aren’t only good games in the eyes of Nintnedo fans -- they're just good games, period. Most of these titles are popular even with gamers who otherwise hate the Wii and all Nintendo hardware stands for. But with so few of these games around, how can the perception ever change?

Comments (24)

As a Nintendo fan, I buy a lot of third party games. Just not any of the ones the third party publishers want to sell.

I've stuck with Nintendo because I trust them to continually supplement me with great gaming for BOTH me and my whole family. It's what made the PS1 and 360 so disappointing to me.

However, it's entirely third parties's fault for having so little success on the Wii. We are going to buy the best games, we couldn't care less about your HD port.

William Figueroa , December 11, 2009

My favorite game on the GameCube was actually a Nintendo-published third party game, Eternal Darkness. It still sold poorly despite the Nintendo logo on the box. But that is more about the "do M-rated games sell on Nintendo platforms?" question which, like the one you discuss here, strikes me as largely circular.

Daniel Feit , December 12, 2009

I would describe myself as a Nintendo fan, but most hardcore gamers usually have more than just a Wii. I am one of those, and when a new game comes out I am obviously going to buy the PS3 version over the Wii version.

I have tried and bought a lot of the 'hardcore' games for the Wii, and in most cases the reason I don't buy more or don't purchase the ones I rent is because the controls are no good. I am constantly wrestling with the wii-mote and it is usually a negative experience trying to play 90% of the games on the system.

I bought No More Heroes 1 on the Wii and enjoyed it, but I am not buying the sequel. Why? They are making one for the HD systems, which will have better controls.

Alex Gagne , December 12, 2009

@Alex: To my knowledge, No More Heroes 2 is still Wii exclusive. Where have you heard otherwise?

As for the topic at hand, I think there are more Wii owners out there that don't even bother with third-party games - or have only slightly branched off into third-party games - than you think. As much as youngsters and the "soccer mom" are a giant demographic for the Wii, hardcore Nintendo fans who don't want to disconnect themselves from the beloved franchises of yesteryear are also quite prevalent. I'm one of them.

Outside of Okami (a very Zelda-esque game) and World of Goo (a WiiWare puzzle game that would have quite possibly made millions if available on XBLA and PSN), I really haven't given third-party games a second thought. Like many, I bought a Wii for first-party Nintendo: Mario, Zelda, Metroid and the gang.

Not only do these series have excellent track records, but - being developed directly by Nintendo - their Wii iterations have been able to take the best advantage of the motion control; third-party developers have by-and-large been having a hell of a time utilizing the hardware properly, if at all. While this is another whole topic in itself, the motion control has turned myself and countless others off, as it rarely enhances the gameplay, and often hinders it. It's kind of sad when I hear a game that sounds cool coming out for the Wii, only to have to remind myself that I will likely need to use the WiiMote in some unnecessary way to play it. As such, my willingness to try new IP's on the Wii is extremely low, and that's really too bad.

Bryan Glynn , December 12, 2009

In my opinion, Nintendo's "at fault" in the sense that they stubbornly chose to latch onto the cartridge format for another hardware cycle with the N64. My understanding is that this is partly due to their control of the format, and the implied profit in continuing to license out the right to make games to third party publishers. This of course drove some folks off... and into the arms of Sony (Sega, sadly, for a short time), and later Microsoft.

GJ, Nintendo, GJ.

John Ostermiller , December 13, 2009

@Bryan. Sorry, should have clarified. I am not going to get No More Heroes 2 because of the port of No More Heroes 1 to the PS3. I would rather spend my money on that.

Alex Gagne , December 13, 2009

I think the problems is that the 3rd party companies don't want to have to do what it takes to make something work on the Wii. They want the benefits of what Nintendo has created but they don't want to do what Nintendo has done.

Take EA. Why is it that EA NEVER creates TV advertising for their Wii games, yet complain about how they can't make sales with said games? Look at Madden. It's never made sense to me why EA doesn't make more of their advertising about the Wii version of the game. EA should know their guaranteed 2-4 million in sales through the PS360 version, so why spend so much on ads for that game? Why not spread the word about the Wii version and try to get people who own a Wii and like football to understand that the Wii version is for them. Instead they push the PS360 version, and never advertise the Wii version, then complain about sales.

They did the same thing for Dead Space: Extraction. The truth of the matter is the days of throwing up a banner on a video game website and then putting out some trailers on the internet are gone. There is no correlation between internet hype and sales. In fact it's possible there might even be a bit of an inverse relationship there.

I own a Wii and PS3, and I like both systems, and I've got plenty of games for both systems, and can tell you that a lot of the goo 3rd party Wii titles are just as good as the 3rd party PS3 ones.

Muramasa, No More Heroes, Zack and Wiki, Mad World, Deadly Creatures, and the such are quite frankly just as good as Prince of Persia, Fallout (yes I said it) Dragon Age, Call of Duty, and so on.

The problem is, in my opinion, the 3rd parties have to quit thinking they can just throw a game on the Wii and let the large install base do the rest.

sean kennedy , December 13, 2009

Wow, that screen shot for MW reflex is UGLY! Kind of sucks to reserve yourself to only playing Nintendo machines. Interesting article and all the games you mentioned were great, but there aren't enough games for me and many others to give a shit about our Wiis. I play web browser games more than my Wii nowadays and there is only a few games on the horizon I want.

Thank god for Sony and Microsoft.

David Matos , December 13, 2009

Since Nintendo was my introduction to video games at large, I still hold a candle for them; even in lieu of owning a 360 as well. I've been content gaming on two consoles;but recently my 360 borked, leaving me in a position I haven't been in since '98: the owner of a single console.

I can't afford said Microsoft system, instead opting to buy a new when I receive my tax return. So I've been dabbling in various games, coming to the quick realization that Wii gamers aren't he ones not giving a flying fart; rather it's the developers and publishers.

You definitely have to dig to find it, but there is some awesome stuff on the Wii; if you're willing to look. I love the hell out of Mushroom Men: The Spore Wars, A Boy and His Blob and Boom Blox: Bash Party; but people don't give them the time of day because they're either subjugated as kiddy games and/or because the Wii is a kiddy system. All devs/publishers need to do is try. Apparently that's a tougher concept that I thought.

Matthew Hunter Mason , December 13, 2009

As a Nintendo fangirl, I agree with Bryan Glynn on this one -- I bought a Nintendo Wii to strictly play Nintendo games on it. If I want to try something new on a Nintendo product that's developed by a third-party, I'll play on my DS faster than I ever would my Wii.

If I want to play a hardcore title that's available on all three systems, I personally would by it for the 360 because of the community component -- it is SO much easier to communicate and play with other players via Xbox Live (and funner, too).

(That is something else entirely that Nintendo needs to work on as well.)

I do find it interesting that they release so many more titles for the DS than they do on the Wii, though.

Cassandra Brabon , December 13, 2009

@Cassandra- I think they release more third party titles on DS, because of poor performance in the past on the Gamecube. I think developers are worried about similar performance on the Wii, so they go for a platform with cheaper development costs like the DS. It's a shame, 'cause the Cube had some excellent third party titles like Tales of Symphonia, and I know they could make some amazing stuff on the Wii if they tried.

Brian Shirk , December 13, 2009

Muramasa, No More Heroes, Zack and Wiki, Mad World, Deadly Creatures, and the such are quite frankly just as good as Prince of Persia, Fallout (yes I said it) Dragon Age, Call of Duty, and so on. -Sean Kennedy

Are you MAD? I can agree that Zack and Wiki and maybe Deadly Creatures are on the same level as the new Prince of Persia, which was overly simple and not all that engaging due to the extremely low difficulty--but No More Heroes, Muramasa, and Mad World are all games that were stylistically awesome, but suffered brutally in terms of either control or repetitiveness or being too simple.

I enjoyed two of those three Wii games quite a bit, but I can admit that the only reason their review scores were rather high is because they were good...for a Wii game. Do you really think if taken pound for pound, any of those three could possibly stand on the same level as Fallout, Dragon Age, or Call of Duty? All three of those games have so much more to offer than the simplistic play or awkward controls you will find in No More Heroes, Muramasa, or Mad World. I liked those games (except Muramasa, which was a supreme disappointment) but they were all very repetitive and the raw control never felt anywhere near as precise as you will find in the higher end games on the other systems.

I am not saying they are bad games, but thinking that they are on the same level as the high end titles you find on PS3 and 360 is a little deluding.

The Wii does have good titles, but they are few and far between and it seems that a large portion of the games that are critically acclaimed for the system are due to them being great in comparison to family game deca challenge mini sports waggle fest game 8!

I have to admit that Zack and Wiki was great in every department, though like most Wii games it would be greatly improved without the waggle controls.

Alex Gagne , December 14, 2009

Wow, little harsh on Castlevania: Judgement there calling it terrible. I'll grant you it's a simplistic 3D fighter with the Castlevania setting, but it's still fairly solid. Is it a top tier game that everyone needs to have? No, but it's also not a "run from your lives" type of game either.

As for the third party dilemma, yeah, true quality 3rd party games are VERY few and far between. Looking at what's been released lately there hasn't been a solid 3rd party game in NA for months. It's really sad because there's some really good ones out in Eurpoe and Japan, but here it seems that the Wii is simply an attachment for merchandising movies and other shovelware.

Bobby Krell , December 14, 2009

I have to say i really don't care about what third parties put on Nintendo systems. I mean, I will buy them. I am playing Silent Hill: Shattered Memories right now. When it comes down to it though, all I really want on a Nintendo platform is a large selection of Nintendo made games.

What really annoys me about Nintendo right now is that they are so successful, yet are not making that many visible attempts to grow. Why are we not hearing about Nintendo opening or buying more studios? Why are we not seeing more than about 8 games made by Nintendo a year? What exactly are they doing with all the money they are raking in with the Wii and DS.

While I think third party development for Nintendo systems has gotten better the last number of years, I have not seen the fans who claim they want these titles to step up and buy them on day 1. Why are Dead Space Extraction and Madworld not huge hits?

Because the idea that the hardcore Nintendo fans are so excited about their Nintendo systems that they will show up on day 1 to support high quality third party games is in fact a myth.

All anyone ever wants from a Nintendo system is Nintendo games. We should at least be honest about it and demand that Nintendo increase the number of games they release each year.

I, for one, would be fine with a sequel to New Super Mario Brothers and Mario Galaxy on an every other year schedule.

Frank Anderson , December 14, 2009

I agree with Frank.

I see the Wii like a Mac. You know what you're getting, and while you get what can with a PC in terms of products, that wasn't what you bought it for. You bought it for a specific purpose, and it does it very well, thank you.

Andrew Hiscock , December 14, 2009

Urr, that made no sense. I meant to say:

"while you can't get what you can with a PC in terms of products"

Andrew Hiscock , December 14, 2009

@Frank: Do we really need - or even, have a right, to know what Nintendo does with its money? It's not like they're making vapor-ware or something. They probably reinvest it into the company or domestic projects. Maybe they own some pachinko parlors - its not like we all know EVERYTHING Nintendo does back home... or have some sort of "right" to.

John Ostermiller , December 14, 2009

John- I am simply saying that Nintendo should do something productive with the wads of cash they are making right now... like invest in more development houses and staff so that they can increase their output of product and earn even more money.

The 'visible' part of my comment was not me asking for a portfolio full of explanations of what Nintendo is doing with their money. If they invested more in development of more games then we would be seeing more than the small handful of games that Nintendo releases each year.

The Wii has been a huge success for more than two years now. It is time that we start seeing the fruits of this success.

If Nintendo does not use these funds to grow as a company, then what was the point of earning all this money?

Unless, of course, Reggie and Miyamoto want to take a bath in it.

Frank Anderson , December 14, 2009

Near the place I live people say "I'm playing Wii", I ask "what game?", they answer "I don't remember, but I'm playing Wii". Following the tainted water that Gamecube left to developers except Capcom comes the fact that, in my experience, Wii is no more that a karaoke machine duct taped with a Gamecube, so the number of people who actually play Wii games is just the Gamecube crowd, everybody else just "play Wii"

Luis Carlos Chivatá Celis , December 14, 2009

Frank and Andrew touch on the point that I neglected to expound on. Yeah, third-party support has been lackluster on the Wii, but do I really care? No, I have my 360. What does worry me, however, is the lackluster first-party support from Nintendo.

Yes, we're still getting our quality doses of Mario, Zelda, and Metroid... but where the hell is everything else? Especially now that so many popular Nintendo characters of past have showed up in Brawl and various Mario games, why is Nintendo not resurrecting their famed franchises (or, god forbid, creating new IP's that aren't a cheap cash-in consisting of mini-games to show off the waning novelty of motion control)?

Honestly, what is Nintendo doing with their time and money?

Bryan Glynn , December 14, 2009

Bryan, Nintendo has been busy buying and building factories to produce their products and spending billions on Research and Development.

Advertising dollars and game development dollars are not getting as much as I would expect/like.

William Figueroa , December 14, 2009

Developing for the Wii is a different animal entirely then the other systems - and development houses don't want to spend more money to make games for a company/system that has been relatively unfriendly to third parties' fortunes for the last three console generations. They would have to expend a lot more resources to make "good" games then just dial back the graphics and do some shoehorning of controls for their cross platform titles. It's not an unreasonable thing to be cautious of the success of the Wii.

And again, I would suggest reading the Japanese newswire to find out what Nintendo may be doing domestically that isn't being reported overseas (here in America and elsewhere)... not to mention the fact that Nintendo probably is refilling its coffers from the last two generations/paying off debt it may have incurred/developing new technology and options we haven't seen. I mean really, with Sony/MS preparing to unleash their own takes on motion control, I would expect Nintendo to play it very close to the vest.

John Ostermiller , December 14, 2009

I've been a huge Nintendo fan since I was a little kid but I've never been a Nintendo fan exclusively. I love good games in general no matter what system they're on but I have to admit nothing gets me more excited than a new Metroid or Zelda. Someone in an earlier post talked about they would buy more core games on Wii if the controls were better. I think this is the fault of lazy developers. Anyone who thinks core games cannot control well on Wii has never played Metroid Prime 3 or The Conduit. I think quality is quality no matter what system you're talking about. If there were more quality 3rd party games on Wii, people would definitely buy them.

Ryan Costello , December 14, 2009

People aren't buying the quality third party games that are available on the system now. What makes you think that is going to change.

Wii is a difficult beast to make games for, that has got to be true. Like I said earlier, I am playing Silent Hill: Shattered Memories right now, and it is truly one of the best games I have yet to play on the Wii. While there are many rough edges, it is the first game in a long time to use most of the functions of the Wii, and one of the only ones that show me how truly cool the Wii Remote can be when used to its full potential.

That said, you can kind of tell that Konami just put the game out as is, rather than putting it on a more significant delay. I have to assume that this is because of how third party games sell. What is their motivation to make the game perfect if there is not a huge amount of hype for a game they clearly tried to push hard as an experience you could only truly get on a Wii?

I don't want to sound so down on Nintendo in all of this. In the end I think they are still amazing, I just think we need to be a bit more honest about the situation they are in.

I hate to see developers and publishers continue to put money into making Wii games that end up coming out and not selling like they should. Nintendo does the best as far as game sales on Nintendo systems, so I think we should just see more Nintendo games come out.

Frank Anderson , December 15, 2009