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Bitmob Roundtable: Tier lists, twins, and character balance in Super Street Fighter 4

Dscn0568_-_copy
Friday, July 15, 2011

The importance of balancing in game development

Alex: That brings up the question, though: Even if it goes unnoticed by a majority of the audience, should companies still strive to create a balanced product?

Daryl: Given the unavoidable competitive nature that fighting games have built over the past two decades, I think it would be wise for developers to consider making their game balanced so that individuals who have an affinity to a certain character can enjoy winning. Let's be honest: I despise losing, and I would be a masochist if I liked playing a character that's meant to lose all the time.

Jonathan: I think that producing a balanced fighter should still be important in the development process...I don't think, however, that producing a "tournament viable" game with airtight 5-5 matchups should be the main worry of that game. From a pure marketing perspective, the tournament players are a captive market to begin with. Making it fun and accessible with a variety of compelling characters should be the first concern, as it is with pretty much any video game with a narrative component these days.

Chase: Yes, developers should try to balance their games. Since casual players like me don't know the difference anyway, why not balance the game so that all players can enjoy it?

Where's the love for Fei Long?

Chris: Even with adding them [the twins], I think Capcom wanted the game to have balance...That also brings me to another character that’s been considered top tier that we haven't talked about: Fei Long. Why hasn't he been given the same amount of attention that the twins have?

Alex: I think Fei Long hasn't been mentioned as the twins because it's generally agreed he's not as strong as them, with worse match-ups against much of the cast (including the twins) and not nearly as many options. And to top it off he's not nearly as flashy!

Daryl: I think the reason why there hasn't been a red alert on Fei Long or any of the buffed returning characters solely rests on the amount of warning stories about Yuns dominating Japan...

This is almost like a modern day [legend,] where all walks of life gather at a local bar and talk tales of an unbeatable hero. In this case, it's tournament players going to arcades discussing how to handle Yun

Jonathan: "The poor sod got up to his feet and looked up. The silhouette of a young man, his arms stretched out like a bird, blocked out the sun, appeared before him. Two sneaker-clad feet were divebombing towards his face.

It was the last thing he ever saw."

*drinks*

Tekken 6 and tier list stigmas

Alex: Heh, so what would you guys argue is the most balanced game at Evo this year? I'm going to have to go with Tekken 6.

Daryl: I've always thought of Tekken 6 as my perfect fighting game. I feel that the vast array of moves that every character has almost makes it seem that they all possess the exact same tools as the next character on the select screen...

That or Evo can run a Street Fighter 1 tournament. Nothing says balance like Ryu vs. Ken with exact same properties.

Chris: ...I did want to ask you guys: Within your circle of friends, is there a stigma against choosing the best characters or picking from the low tier? ...I tend to gravitate toward good-but-not-too-good fighters like Rose.

Chase: We don't let my friend Bryan use three Jins in Marvel vs. Capcom 2 (he's just too good with the character to allow him more than one), and for TVC, we usually state before we play whether we want to play with the giant characters or not...Other than that, we really allow anything. No one's that good to make the tiers show through.

Jonathan: Among friends playing locally, it isn't an issue at all...Online's a different case...In SF4 I've avoided using guys like Ryu, Ken, Zangief and now Yun/Yang simply because they're everywhere. I run into so many of them that playing dozens of Ryu/Ryu matches sounds so boring. The few times that I get a Chun Li/Chun Li or Dudley/Dudley feel sort of special as a result...

Daryl: I have two answers for that. With my high school friends, we tend to play characters that we enjoy playing...

My friends in the competitive scene have various tastes depending on the game. In MVC3, they tend to gravitate to the best characters that suit their play styles...For games like SF4, BlazBlue, Guilty Gear, and Arcana Heart, my friends tend to pick a favorite character and ride him out to the bitter end...

Personally, I'm in that category...To me, picking a character isn't about who wins the most but who I have fun playing the most.


This is an abridged version of the conversation. Click here for the complete 4,900-word transcript that includes discussions on Marvel vs. Capcom 3, Super Smash Bros., anime-based fighters, and GamerBee’s victory over Justin Wong at Evo 2010.

 
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Comments (7)
Mindjack
July 15, 2011

Great roundtable discussion! I haven’t played Street Fighter 4 online in over a year. Back then everyone played as Sagat or Ken. I’m guessing that changed to Yun and Yang.

Dscn0568_-_copy
July 15, 2011

Thanks! Online still has a variety of characters used in my opinion though.

37893_1338936035999_1309080061_30825631_6290042_n
July 15, 2011

Had a ton of fun participating in this. Thanks to everyone involved.

Mikeshadesbitmob0611
July 16, 2011

Man, this would have been right up my alley. Good read, though.

12316_390964573856_517183856_3883870_3650368_n
July 16, 2011

Back when SF4 first came out, everyone just spammed fireballs. It was pathetic and infuriating, especially since--as a slightly above average player--I would still get caught by them here and there. Not to mention, it's just not fun to play against someone who literally only knows one move. 

1 out of 20 times I'd get someone who played Chun-Li or whoever, and they'd just complete mop the floor with me and add another victory to their 200-win streak. 

I don't know, Capcom still has a long way to go before they comprehend game balance. I wish I could enjoy the single-player experience but the stories are pitiful (especially compared to BlazBlue or Mortal Kombat's impressive story modes) and Seth is just outright bullshit. 

Dscn0568_-_copy
July 16, 2011

There is an art to fireball wars as you learn more about the game - which version to throw, using EX fireballs to break normal FBs, baiting people to jump in. Fireball wars are part of setting the pace for the match and whose forced to come toward who. The thing with vanilla SF4 is:

1. Everyone was new in the game, and throwing fireballs is a more obvious tactic than rolling through them with Abel  or using EX Scissors Kick with M. Bison. Understanding what you should do with Ryu is more obvious than what you should do with other characters. I still face M. Bison players who just do Headstomps and Psycho Crushers, the exact opposite of what he should be doing.

2. Sagat, Ryu, and Akuma were the best in the game. In Arcade Edition most of the top characters aside from Sagat and don't have fireballs or have weak fireball games (Ken and Sakura). Even then Sagat isn't as good as he was in vanilla, as his low fireball now has noticeable recovery. It's debatable whether Vanilla Sagat was worse than AE Yun.

Default_picture
July 27, 2011

No one I play with is that good but if anyone was, I'd make them play with a controller and not a fight stick.

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