Separator

Bitmob Roundtable: Tier lists, twins, and character balance in Super Street Fighter 4

Dscn0568_-_copy
Friday, July 15, 2011

Super Street Fighter 4: Arcade Edition Yun


Balance between characters has always been a key part of modern fighting games. So why did Capcom design the latest installment of its premier franchise with clear kings of the ring in mind?

With the release of Super Street Fighter 4: Arcade Edition, Capcom intentionally made new characters Yun and Yang the standout warriors of the game. These twins had versatile offenses backed up by safe special moves, strong mix-ups, great damage potential, and decent defensive options. 

The competitive community has had to deal with these kung fu masters since the game came out in arcades. But I also wondered what these two mean for casual or intermediate players. So I rounded up four Bitmob members to discuss the issue with me.

Together we talked about character balance, the tier lists players use to rank characters, and what companies should focus on when developing these fighters. Here are the highlights below. For the full transcript with footnotes, click here.

 

The community members are (in order of appearance):

  • Jonathan Ore, a Toronto resident who writes for Bitmob and the local site Dork Shelf. He hasn’t entered any tournaments but follows the scene. 
  • Alex Spruch, a tournament player whose most recent event was GVN Winter Brawl 5 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. He writes for his own website, Spruchy.com.
  • Chase Koeneke, a two-year Bitmobber who enjoys fighting games at a casual level. He also hosts the World 8 podcast.
  • Daryl Bunao, a former tournament player from Northern California who has played at two Evo tournaments. He is an intern at Anime News Network and a former content producer for the Super Smash Bros. site All is Brawl.

Defining balance

Chris: Since we're talking about character balance, we should start off by asking for your definition of a “balanced” fighting game. Is it when every character has a fair chance of winning? Is it when not everyone is viable, but there is enough diversity to accommodate different play styles at a high level?

Jonathan: In pure theoretical terms, I think the former is true: where every character (save outliers like joke characters and A.I. bosses) has the same chance of winning against any other character -- if the players are at the same skill level...

Alex: To me a balanced fighting game is when every member of the cast has options to deal with anything that might be thrown at them. Sometimes a character might not have the best answer...but as long as they have some sort of options in all situations, then a game is that much closer to being balanced. It's when a character has the best response to everything that imbalance starts to show itself.

Chase: I think the latter definition is more apt, but I don't begrudge a fighting game that balances all of its characters. As long as a variety of styles are available so that everyone can find something that works for them, I think you've got a winning formula.

This question seems more pointed to one-on-one fighters, though. When it comes to games like Marvel vs. Capcom and Tatsunoko vs. Capcom, the idea of tiers starts to hold a bit more weight.

Daryl: I feel that a "balanced" fighting game offers the players an assortment of characters that should have an equal, or at least what the community calls a 4-6 matchup, with the other members of the game's cast.

Super Street Fighter 4: Arcade Edition Yang

Yun and Yang vs. the world

Chris: Going back to what Alex said about balance, are Yun and Yang characters who have answers to everything to the point that they marginalize the rest of the roster?  

Alex: Hah, I'm glad you picked up on that, Chris, because that's exactly what I was going for. Yun and Yang are overpowered specifically for that reason: They have the best answers for absolutely everything. I don't think it marginalizes the roster, but it's definitely to a point where it makes the twins more appealing than any other character in the game. 

Daryl: When it comes to characters displaying heightened abilities, [most would allude to] the dominance of Magneto, Storm, Sentinel and maybe Cable in Marvel vs. Capcom 2...Both Yun and Yang are new characters, and it will take some time to fully determine whether or not the rest of the SSF4 cast can find tools to counter the twins.

Jonathan: Yun and Yang are problems for sure, but I'm fairly sure they represent a unique problem in that they were designed to be stronger from the outset. I think the designers intended to make them very appealing because the rest of the cast had been playable in SF4 for up to three years already, so it would easily shake up the roster and how other players reacted to them. Compare them to Evil Ryu and Oni, who generally didn't re-write the book on how people are playing the game.

Alex: I don't know if time is going to change anything regarding the twins. The game has been out in Japan since December, and the only weak matchups for the twins have been Zangief and Sagat (I think Fei Long might do decently as well).

Jonathan: Do tournament results and compiled tier listings really matter to a fighting game beyond the die-hard enthusiasts, though?...Right now in Arcade Edition, I have as many problems with a good Abel player as a good Yun player in my skill bracket.

Chase: Being more of a casual fighting fan -- since I have not participated in any tournaments myself and don't really plan to -- I can't really tell if a character is unbalanced on my own. It's not until I read and hear things from other people that I see this, and usually, it only manifests itself when play is way above my skill level.

Daryl: There is a division of answers when you factor what the level of player is. Your average Joe the Plumber can sit down after a day's work and play AE, enjoy his new characters, and play competitors around his same skill set...

At the tournament level, the top players are using characters that they are comfortable playing against the game's entire roster....As a former tournament player, I want to come out on top because I did not want to travel out 50-plus miles to lose two games and get called free on a live stream.1

Next page: The developer's role in balancing games, the difference between the twins and Fei Long, and whether there is a stigma to using top tiers.


1"Free" is lingo for when people lose quickly and brutally in a verses match, or for when a certain tactic will always work on them.

 
1 2 Nextarrow
Problem? Report this post
CHRIS HOADLEY'S SPONSOR
Comments (7)
Mindjack
July 15, 2011

Great roundtable discussion! I haven’t played Street Fighter 4 online in over a year. Back then everyone played as Sagat or Ken. I’m guessing that changed to Yun and Yang.

Dscn0568_-_copy
July 15, 2011

Thanks! Online still has a variety of characters used in my opinion though.

37893_1338936035999_1309080061_30825631_6290042_n
July 15, 2011

Had a ton of fun participating in this. Thanks to everyone involved.

Mikeshadesbitmob0611
July 16, 2011

Man, this would have been right up my alley. Good read, though.

12316_390964573856_517183856_3883870_3650368_n
July 16, 2011

Back when SF4 first came out, everyone just spammed fireballs. It was pathetic and infuriating, especially since--as a slightly above average player--I would still get caught by them here and there. Not to mention, it's just not fun to play against someone who literally only knows one move. 

1 out of 20 times I'd get someone who played Chun-Li or whoever, and they'd just complete mop the floor with me and add another victory to their 200-win streak. 

I don't know, Capcom still has a long way to go before they comprehend game balance. I wish I could enjoy the single-player experience but the stories are pitiful (especially compared to BlazBlue or Mortal Kombat's impressive story modes) and Seth is just outright bullshit. 

Dscn0568_-_copy
July 16, 2011

There is an art to fireball wars as you learn more about the game - which version to throw, using EX fireballs to break normal FBs, baiting people to jump in. Fireball wars are part of setting the pace for the match and whose forced to come toward who. The thing with vanilla SF4 is:

1. Everyone was new in the game, and throwing fireballs is a more obvious tactic than rolling through them with Abel  or using EX Scissors Kick with M. Bison. Understanding what you should do with Ryu is more obvious than what you should do with other characters. I still face M. Bison players who just do Headstomps and Psycho Crushers, the exact opposite of what he should be doing.

2. Sagat, Ryu, and Akuma were the best in the game. In Arcade Edition most of the top characters aside from Sagat and don't have fireballs or have weak fireball games (Ken and Sakura). Even then Sagat isn't as good as he was in vanilla, as his low fireball now has noticeable recovery. It's debatable whether Vanilla Sagat was worse than AE Yun.

Default_picture
July 27, 2011

No one I play with is that good but if anyone was, I'd make them play with a controller and not a fight stick.

You must log in to post a comment. Please register if you do not have an account yet.