Indie Games Should Keep Acting Like Indie Games

Christian_profile_pic
Saturday, February 13, 2010

Editor's note: I'm in strong agreement with Christian on this one: Requiring that games holistically adhere to certain core design philosophies such as "being fun" or "having a goal" severely limits their expressive capacities. Sure, I don't want everything I play to be a mentally challenging bore...but I also wish designers would stop treating me like a sex-obsessed man-ape that's only interested in killing things. -James


This is a response to Jim Sterling's recent Destructoid column on the state of art games -- specifically, his accusations of pretentiousness and monotony.

First, I want to address Sterling's opinion, or at least what I've gleaned of it from his hyperbolic and inflammatory post. I wish I could believe that his point is that games and art can both make statements and still be fun. I have a hard time believing anyone could disagree with that position. But his argument seems to be more that art games must be fun and can, if we assume the former, feel free to make a statement thereafter.

Implying that all art games are vague and directionless, and insinuating the notion that they must become more populist, is no less stubborn or pretentious than the games themselves. Sterling isn't stating his opinion on art games; he's issuing a mandate that art games should only be allowed to exist -- or more mildly, only be appreciated -- under the restriction that they are fun. This reasoning presupposes that games serve only one purpose: entertainment.

 

Not many require that all painting be aesthetically pleasing. Likewise, not many claim that all video recorders should only produce entertainment. We don't hear arguments issuing that any other media must serve one, baseline purpose before they can do more. Such assertions would be arbitrarily reductive. Francis Bacon's work isn't fun or pretty, but it is interesting and valuable. Similarly, the works of Stan Brakhage and Maya Deren aren't entertaining, but that doesn't imply pointlessness.

In the column, Jim focuses most of his vitriol on Tale of Tales' The Path. I haven't played The Path, so I can't make any statement on it specifically. Instead, I'll use another indie often criticized for being ostentatious and overwrought: last year's Flash title Every Day The Same Dream (available here). In the interest of candor, I'll say straight away that this is not a fun experience. The interface mostly consists of holding the right arrow on your keyboard. But that doesn't stop it from weaving a rich and creatively rewarding narrative. Its multilayered meaning reveals the game's purpose. Some think the game is about the mundanity of modern living. For me, it was about self-reflection; I didn't think about what the game had to say about the world -- only on what it had to say about me, based on my own reaction.

Apparently, I'm supposed to believe that because it wasn't fun, it failed as a piece of art? I can't comprehend why people are so married to the idea that games need to be fun. Why? Why does any art need to be fun? A particular group of gamers -- people like Sterling -- are unable to accept that not every game needs to include them. If you don't like art, fine. No one is forcing anyone in to an art house theater to watch 20 minutes of paint on celluloid, and no one is forcing anyone to play Passage or Void.

If people like Jim Sterling aren't interested in art, then why do they have so many opinions about it? Why play something that you don't enjoy just so you can complain about it? Nine times out of 10, calling something pretentious is another way of saying, "this doesn't appeal to me." I'm not saying that the art world is free of pretension -- quite the opposite -- but if your priority is a good time and you just aren't interested in branching out, why bother with experiences that aren't fun?

Making fun a prerequisite to existence cuts short the medium's artistic potential. Even if it's not deliberate, that is the result. The potentiality of interactivity is staggering, but as a format, it still struggling to even walk. The only way to mature is through experimentation, and the indie world has got plenty of room for everyone.

Art games shouldn't get a free pass. I feel like there's an illusion that they do, but the Internet winnows the lot. Out of the thousands of indie games floating around, only the cream of the crop gain any attention. I'm not saying all games need to strive to be art, and I'm not saying that all art games are good art. But claiming that games can only be one thing willfully attempts to destroy their potential to be anything more -- it undermines their legitimacy as a form of expression, reflection, or a way to say something about the human condition. And that isn't always fun.

 
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Comments (29)
Default_picture
February 13, 2010
I think you're the one who is missing the point. It really comes down to the reason that an individual games, but by definition "game" has a definitive meaning that I'm sure you understand. It's not that video games only serve a single purpose. It's that they serve that single purpose in multiple ways. Video games are supposed to be fun or entertaining, and if it doesn't hit one of those it is a failure to the medium. For example, you use [i]Every Day The Same Dream[/i] as an example, saying that it isn't fun at all. You then follow this with " But it's still one of the most narratively and creatively rewarding experiences I've had with a game.". This means you were entertained for personal reasons, but entertained is the key word here. the "Video Games as Art" debate begins and ends with Shadow of the Colossus, I believe. The game is a perfect example of art; A beautiful, but broken world, inhabited by incredible creatures... but it's also fun/entertaining. The game brings you into its atmosphere, it's cinematic, it's full of metaphors, etc. I could really go on all day here. My main point with this is that the game is far from perfect. It has many frustrating moments from a pure "fun" standpoint, but the total package allows you to overlook the shortcomings. I personally don't normally agree with Jim Sterling, but I think he is right here. His journalistic integrity may not have existed prior to this article anyways, but if anything this gives him some. When we as gamers sat down to play NES and SNES we weren't concerned about anything other than how much fun they were to play. Jim Sterling is right. The concept of being "Indie" is, well, stupid. Indie people tend to only like Indie things, because they aren't popular. Well, guess what? They aren't popular for a reason, most of the time.
Christian_profile_pic
February 13, 2010
I don't think we share the same definition of "entertainment." But as long as your argument is that entertainment (like art) is subjective, then I only have one question. What's the point of Sterling's column to begin with? Based on that argument, he's bitching about playing games he clearly doesn't enjoy, then accusing people who do enjoy them of being shallow and pretentious, only playing them because of their "indieness." Again, I call bullshit. He's demonstrating the exact same pretension as the so-called "internet professors," except on the opposite extreme, acting as a philistine.
Christian_profile_pic
February 13, 2010
But again I must ask: why do games "need" to be fun? The only answer anyone can give is, "that's what the word means." That's a sorry excuse; no other art medium is held to such a singular, narrow restriction. Incidentally, those mediums are a lot more respected than ours. What if BioShock had just been walking around Rapture, looking at things? No shooting anything. Not as many people would still call it fun, but I'd bet money that many more would more seriously consider its potential as art, insofar as an interactive experience that allows you to explore the visual narrative of Rapture.
Default_picture
February 13, 2010
You didn't even read what I wrote aside from my first sentence. You just needed a reason to spit more dumb words out of your mouth. If Bioshock was just walking around, you know why it wouldn't be called art? because nobody would want to f***ing play it. Therefore the only people who would play it are elitist indie kids, and no one gives a sh*t was they think. The end. I don't know what jaded perspective you are viewing this from, but there is a very large difference between a book, or movie, and a game. The interactive aspect calls for it to entertain in some way shape or form, or it will be ignored. Would you go out and play a sport that you didn't like for entertainment? Are you the type of person who thinks someone can finger paint on a sock and it's art? That's what it sounds like. Sorry for the rage, but read my whole comment next time.
Lance_darnell
February 13, 2010
Shawn, I did not read your whole comment either, but this: [quote]You just needed a reason to spit more dumb words out of your mouth.[/quote] is not cool. Your points are obviously strong enough to stand on their own without you have to resort to name calling. Even though you did blame it on rage, but that is no excuse!!! :o
Shoe_headshot_-_square
February 18, 2010
I deleted the comment Lance quoted. Let's keep it civil, guys. (And Lance, don't be shy as a moderator about reporting that stuff to us to delete, please.) :)
There184
February 18, 2010
The word "game" (in this context) is just a relic from when videogames were electronic toys you plugged into your TV. The Star Trek crews didn't complain that their holonovels weren't fun.
Lance_darnell
February 18, 2010
@Dan - Sorry, I will get on that. Half of the time I feel I am the one who should be moderated! ;D
Default_picture
February 18, 2010
I think video games are having some of the trouble that comic books had. The term comic book implied something childish so they had trouble being viewed as serious art. So some books they started calling graphic novels so people wouldn't think of them the same way. It's not perfect, but it has worked some. Maybe video games are in need of a similar rebranding.
Default_picture
February 18, 2010
Well, the audience for these types of games are too small/don't exist yet. Plus, this is an experimental genre right now and I feel like it's being attacked like it's some fully formed and realized one which simply isn't the case. I feel like if this genre had it's mario game, something genre-defining, something everyone could enjoy, then we'd be on to something and the whole thing could really progress.
Profilepic
February 18, 2010
I agree with your premise: I wish more developers would take the risk on making games (or including elements in games) that aren't meant to be fun. But I took exception with a couple of points: [quote]Nine times out of 10, calling something pretentious is another way of saying, "this doesn't appeal to me."[/quote] This is a cheap shot. If you like a little pretense in your games, fine, but that doesn't mean you get to say that the majority of people who don't can't make a good argument for their position. I think, most of the time, calling a game out for being pretentious is just as valid a complaint as saying its plot is full of holes or that it has too many quick time events. [quote]Out of the thousands of indie games floating around, only the cream of the crop gain any attention.[/quote] I disagree. There are lots of awful indie games out there, but I've also played some really good ones that I've never seen mentioned anywhere. I think the ones that get the most attention are, first and foremost, the ones that most closely fit people's image of what an indie game is. Of course this is all subjective, but I'd be happy to argue the merits of, say, Genetos vs. P.B. Winterbottom. I think the former is far better, but it hasn't received anywhere near the same level of attention.
Default_picture
February 18, 2010
Good article, though I'm not sure I entirely agree with it. Nor do I entirely with Jim and any of the arguments he presented in either of his editorials. The discussion that is generated from this stuff is important for the gaming community, so I'd appreciate it if a lot of people didn't simply dismiss someone on either side of the argument like seems to be happening. And Jim certainly doesn't deserve any personal attacks. At least he has distinct viewpoints unlike a lot of people out there and can voice them confidently and well. But looking over them, it gives me a lot to think about. I'm glad we can have this discussion, as it gives me a lot to think about. I do have some opinions, but nothing I can articulate pretty well. It's a situation where I can't that Sterling is right, or that his detractors are right, and yet at the same time, there both kind of right. I'll come back to ya when I've read enough material to form an opinion that I can articulate better. Cheeres for writing about the issue. :)
Chas_profile
February 18, 2010
The idea that a video game should fun in the traditional sense just because the medium is called "video [i]games[/i]" is pretty ridiculous. I think if we had a different name from the beginning, the medium would have have an easier time becoming accepted as legitimate art form.
Default_picture
February 18, 2010
I think Jim's article holds lots of truths. I think what he is mainly reaching out to say in this article is that indie games can be artistic and deep with messages, meanings, subtexts, and all of that, but do not turn them into something that trys so hard. I agree with Jim in saying that most indie games are turning into this sort of cookie cutter formula of ambiguous and seemingly fruitless subtexts. Games have the potential to be so much more than that, whether they're "entertaining" or not. The argument you seem to be going on about here, Christian, is one of semantics regarding entertainment. At least in my opinion.
Christian_profile_pic
February 18, 2010
Holy macaroni! First, I just want to say that this was really just a gut reaction, off the cuff sort of post. Incidentally, I assumed it would just fade into the mobfeed without much of a glance. I'm really happy it made the front page, but it really makes wish I would have put more thought into it when I wrote it. ;) Just to generally address a lot of the points some have brought up: I agree with you. Yes, you. @Greg: Semantics are a big part of the what I was getting at. As others have mentioned, the word "game", as most define it, is outdated. Originally I had this whole mini-rant about the word "punk," which, according to its archaic definition, is a male prostitute who deals exclusively with other men, but by its modern definition refers to a subculture that defines itself much differently. I think it's a fitting analogy. Ultimately, however, my point is not about semantics. My earlier comment to Shawn about the definition of "entertainment" was an attempt to speak within the argument he was making, and was just for the sake of that argument. I don't feel that EDtSD was "fun" or "entertaining" for me. @Josh: Why? @Cameron: I didn't mean to imply that only the undisputed [b]best[/b] indie games get coverage. Certainly there are undiscovered gems. Marketing plays a big role, even in the indie world. All I meant is that, generally, we don't see hard criticism of indie games from the press because limited space and time only get devoted to those that the writers really care about and enjoy, and personally want to get out to the world. The space is too vast, and as Omar said, the audience too small, to devote a lot of coverage to. Thanks for the comments, everyone! I agree with Nick that the discussion is more important than any one verdict. I would have addressed many of the issues you all brought up if this had been a more thoughtful post, but again, this was just gut reaction after reading Sterling's column and its fallout in one afternoon.
Jamespic4
February 18, 2010
@Cameron [quote]Nine times out of 10, calling something pretentious is another way of saying, "this doesn't appeal to me.[/quote] This is a paraphrasing of a lot of stuff I trimmed from the article. I take responsibility if you disagree with the exact wording of that sentence.
Christian_profile_pic
February 18, 2010
Thanks for taking time to edit this, James. I know its original form was a bit of a mess. ;)
Jamespic4
February 19, 2010
No problem, Christian.
Img950653
February 19, 2010
Thanks for taking the time to write this, Christian - it's by far the most insightful article I've read on BitMob on this subject, and I'm planted firmly in your camp. It's a shame that whatever valid points Jim Sterling may have on the subject of indie games got buried by his belligerent and insulting writing style. I think it can be boiled down to this: if you don't like games that seem unfun to you, fine. Don't play them. I love music, but that doesn't mean I spend hours sitting in my room dissecting Chopin compositions. I don't mind that people do, and the world is a better place because people have that choice. It's really that simple. @Cameron: referring to something as "pretentious" is actually what's known as subjectivist fallacy, and not grounds for a valid argument. In this instance, it's akin to dismissing something as stupid or lame - a word modifiable only for the purposes of the person/people issuing the challenge. How can I argue that against something being pretentious when what constitutes "pretentious" hasn't been established? At best, it's an intellectually lazy form of criticism.
Img950653
February 19, 2010
And on a personal note, can I just say how pleasantly surprised I am at how civil this discussion has been on BitMob? Especially when compared to the troglodytes posting on Destructoid. First and last time I'll ever visit that website...
Christian_profile_pic
February 19, 2010
Thanks, Paul! I meant to do this much earlier but forgot, so while I remember now I also want to point to what Kieron Gillen had to say on the issue: [quote]... Me? I had a couple of responses to Jim’s cheery populism. Firstly, the line he draws is interesting. The Path is nonsense. Braid, however, is splendid. The same column could have been written by someone who found the Braid too pretentious. The line is obviously foggy. Something will always be too pretentious for someone, and they’ll act offended it exists. Secondly, his only example of why the Path is so pretentious is that if you follow the instruction to stay on the path, you “lose” the game. “Stay on the path” is one of the most famously disobeyed commands in all literature. And it’s dropped in a game that’s clearly about Little Red Riding Hood. If we want to have games be smarter, we have to accept we may have to be smarter players. And if the level of cultural literacy games demand is actually less than “May have read a fairy tale once”, we’re totally fucked.[/quote] Pretty much what I was trying to say, condensed into a paragraph. But I guess that's why he's Kieron Gillen and I'm not. ;)
Default_picture
February 19, 2010
@Paul: I love these types of discussions and I don't know why I didn't join sooner! Also, I would give Destructoid a 2nd chance... They are a bit abrasive at times and rough around the edges, but there can be very insightful and entertaining articles there.
Christian_profile_pic
February 19, 2010
@Paul: I've never spent much time looking at Destructoid comments (aside from that column), but like Greg I do enjoy a lot of their articles. If you want a sort-of anti-Sterling, check out Anthony Burch (if you haven't already), also of Destructoid. He can also be abrasive and I even disagree with a few of his views (gaming-wise), but he consistently raises really interesting issues and provides some great discussion.
Profilepic
February 19, 2010
@Paul I think "pretentious" is less like "stupid," more like "pornographic": even if we can't give a concise definition of it, there's significant agreement about what it means. Maybe there's a lot less agreement about when it's appropriate to use it, but that's different from its meaning being hopelessly vague. I'm not saying critics should label a game "pretentious" and leave it there. That [i]is[/i] lazy. It's an accusation that needs to be defended, but I think an interesting discussion can come out of that defense in a way that it couldn't if all "pretentious" meant was "not to my personal tastes."
Default_picture
February 19, 2010
Games entail playing, sounds simple but it's something a lot of these guys need to learn. I have yet to see an "indie" game fully take advantage of the medium, most of these "games" are barely games, if anything, they should turn these ideas into movies if you're going to restrict my ability to play that much, what's the difference? An indie game (emphasis on game) has to be something that's true to the medium, all I see is high concept and poor execution.
Christian_profile_pic
February 19, 2010
@Omar: So how do you define "play" vs. "interactivity"? A movie doesn't allow for interactivity -- games do. So why should games be restricted to promoting a single definition of "play" as opposed to a platform for an audience to interact personally with a piece of art? Why can a painting or a drawing break rules and conventions of proportion, perspective, color, etc. and be respected art, but a game can't break the arbitrary rules imposed on its medium because of the one commonly accepted definition of a word? And the rules of the former involve actual science and fact -- the "rules" of games are just made up by their audience, and based only on semantics and subjectivity. What if the industry resolved itself to define "games" and "play" only from an evolutionary/sociological perspective? All games would have to be educational. However, that's clearly not the case.
Default_picture
February 19, 2010
So we have some games in one pile - traditional-style games that have some sort of conventional artistic qualities. Maybe Shadow of the Colossus, Flower, that kind of thing. They try to be different, unique, beautiful, etc., but they would still be called "games" before anything else. And then we have another pile with quirky, experimental titles that claim to be art above all else. This could include games mention in this article or the comments, such as Passage. Given the choice of the two piles, which would be considered by more gamers to be fun? Which would be entertaining? These piles are different not because of things like budgets or expressions, but because of design. The first pile was meant to be [i]played[/i] above all else. Yes, you experience these games because you are observing them with your senses. But it's not the same as "experiencing" an elaborate painting, where you interpret it with your emotions and just sort of let it wash over you. the second pile of games are more like this. These games, although they can be experienced, aren't always being "played" per se if they are meant to just show you something.
Default_picture
February 24, 2010

I like this article, but I feel it falls into the same trap as the Destructoid article in insisting on referring to art pieces structured in a game-like way as games.  The Passage, whether it is good or bad, is not a game, but is very clearly a piece of art.  I would say something requires the player to have some skill to be a game; if all you are doing is wandering around aimlessly, with no ability to win, lose, or effect the outcome by any means except random experimentation, how is that a game?


No one expects little indie art short films to be the same thing as big budget Hollywood movies.  Yes, there is a point at which the two meet, in the same way that a game like Ico balances art and gameplay, but most games, movies or anything else can be considered more one than the other, and need to be considered based on what they are, rather than on what they would be if they were something else.

Default_picture
February 24, 2010

I like this article, but I feel it falls into the same trap as the Destructoid article in insisting on referring to art pieces structured in a game-like way as games.  The Passage, whether it is good or bad, is not a game, but is very clearly a piece of art.  I would say something requires the player to have some skill to be a game; if all you are doing is wandering around aimlessly, with no ability to win, lose, or effect the outcome by any means except random experimentation, how is that a game?


No one expects little indie art short films to be the same thing as big budget Hollywood movies.  Yes, there is a point at which the two meet, in the same way that a game like Ico balances art and gameplay, but most games, movies or anything else can be considered more one than the other, and need to be considered based on what they are, rather than on what they would be if they were something else.

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